They may not like to admit they are false prophets, but by their own yardstick, they are false messengers (and I challenge anyone to explain the difference). Many years ago they defined that yardstick in the Watchtower of May 1, 1977, page 8, which reads: "Jehovah God is the Grand Identifier of his true messengers. He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true. Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers. How does he expose them? He frustrates their signs and predictions. In this way he shows that they are self-appointed prognosticators, whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning – yes, their foolish, fleshly thinking!" I would like them to give just one example of a message they have given that Jehovah has made come true - because there are hundreds that have been 'frustrated'.
Ultimate Axiom
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Axiom
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60
Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT false prophets
by SloppyJoe intonight on the service meeting we discussed why jws are not false prophets.
of the ten minute part two were spent discussing that jws just had wrong expectations and only very minor changes over the years although nothing specific was mentioned.
the other eight focused on the core bible truths that have remained the same over the years.
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What's The STRANGEST Thing You've Seen At A Kingdom Hall?
by minimus ini saw a fight break out on the platform between an elder and a unbelieving husband who accused the elder of f---ing his wife.
he then threw the lectern on the floor and pushed the elder.
it was cool.......
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Ultimate Axiom
When the babylon book was being studied at the book study, this sister from Iraq would pronounce Zerubbabel as Zeru-bubble. I didn't notice it at first, but after my wife whispered in my ear, I had to stiffle a laugh everytime she said it.
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Prayers that God answers. Any examples?
by punkofnice inwhen i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.
if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.
there was never an obvious message/answer from god.
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Ultimate Axiom
Have you heard of the Great Prayer Experiment? As prayers are commonly asked for sick people an experiment was set up in which 1802 patients in six hospitals (all of whom received coronary bypass surgery) were divided in three groups. Group 1 received prayers but didn’t know it, group 2 received no prayers and didn’t know it, and group 3 received prayers and did know it. The prayers were delivered in three churches (one each in Minnesota, Massachusetts and Missouri). End result – no difference in the recovery rates for groups 1 and 2, while those in group 3 suffered significantly more complications. Conclusion - don’t have people pray for you – it makes no difference if you don’t know it, and if you do know it, you’ll be worse off.
I’ve had many good and fortuitous thing happen to me in my life, and I didn’t pray for a single one of them. If I had prayed, no doubt some here would say my prayers were answered. I would say, get real.
Finally, as plenty of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus etc etc pray to their Gods and get their prayers answered, it must mean God doesn’t give a toss what religion you below to.
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Prayers that God answers. Any examples?
by punkofnice inwhen i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.
if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.
there was never an obvious message/answer from god.
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Ultimate Axiom
It was the contrast between the admonition to “seek first the kingdom and all these things will be added to you” and the practical reality that sod all is added to you no matter much you put the kingdom first, or how hard you pray, that caused me to stop pioneering, start doubting and eventually leave it all. No, I cannot give a single example of a prayer being answered. But if someone can, wouldn’t that prove God exists? The only prayers that are 'answered' are they prayers for things that were going to happen anyway.
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The Watchtower Writers need to answer this question "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history!"
by ÁrbolesdeArabia inhow come the watchtower will not side with christendom and address a topic like the following?
what if christendom had allowed islam to spread it's plunder into europe without a fight and great force?
i direct your attention to islam spreading not as a distraction, but to ask the question most atheist have asked me when we talk of this subject.
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Ultimate Axiom
George Orwell once wrote in one of his brilliant essays (and I paraphrase), “you cannot understand the nature of the modern world unless you understand the nature of nationalism”. The modern world to him was the mid 20th Century, but the principle holds true for all ages. Virtually all wars over the last two centuries (and most before that) have been fought for the Fatherland (or Motherland), either in defence of, or for the expansion thereof. Whether Hitler or Stalin were born again Christians or hard boiled atheists is totally irrelevant. The vast majority of combatants in all of these wars were theists, simply because they outnumbered atheist by a considerable margin. But that too is totally irrelevant, because they were not fighting for an ism, they were fighting for their Father/Mother Land, i.e. for Nationalism (some might like to use the more acceptable word Patriotism, but to me they are same thing).
To say that “atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history” is as stupid as it is wrong (and that is putting it politely). In all of these wars theists and atheists fought side by side for their given Nation. Nationalism is the driving force, and nationalism is the prerogative of neither group – some of the most rabid nationalists can be found in the fundamentalist wings of both Christian and Muslim religions, which is why they often fight amongst themselves. They can also be found among athiests. And while there have been wars fought purely for the defence or expansion of a religion, there has never been a war fought by atheist for similar objectives. In fact, there has never been a war fought for the principles of atheism at all.
AA, if you (or the Christian Science Monitor) want to attack Dawkins and his like, then please use something more sensible. For example, Dawkins said in one of his lectures (again paraphrased), “good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but to get good people to do bad things takes religion”. This is a deliberate half truth, said no doubt because of his disdain for religion, but it is quite obvious that political ideologies (Fascism, Nazism, Communism etc) have produced the same effects. So perhaps you might like to debate whether the real force behind the mass murders of history is the ideology of Religion (in all its forms) or the ideology of Nationalism (in all its forms). I won’t join such a debate, as to me they are all as evil as each other.
I would like to say that the reason the Watchtower will not side with Christendom to address this topic is because the premise is vacuous and absurd; the typical reaction of shallow theistic squirming. But I guess the real reason is because they wouldn’t side with Christendom over anything.
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Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?
by Simon inhere's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?
why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?
or the day before that?
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Ultimate Axiom
If the universe is infinite, with an infinite number of galaxies, starts, planets etc, then the consequences don’t bear thinking about. Since there are a finite number of fundamental particles that can be arrange in a finite number of ways, then it follows that objects repeat themselves in an infinite universe. So there is another planet exactly like this one out there somewhere, and there is another you, with all your thoughts, life, history, doing everything you do, everything identical. Not only that, there are in infinite number of them. Which means an infinite number of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Oh man, I’m going back to bed.
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Infinity and god - why wait to create the universe?
by Simon inhere's the problem with infinity ... we can't comprehend it.. it's bad enough when it's space, but when it's time as well and then we throw in some all powerful creature supposedly existing forever ... well, it just doesn't make sense and raises questions.. such as why wait?
why didn't god create the universe the day before he did?
or the day before that?
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Ultimate Axiom
I've been away for a while and came back to this thread. And now my brain hurts. I'm going back to bed.
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Your worst convention experience.
by zeb inby a split second rescuing our handicapped son from being pushed down the stairs by a flood of sisters rushing out to see as the drama had started.. the main offender being a special pioneer..
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Ultimate Axiom
Dublin international, early 70s - they had rigged the speakers so each echoed the other - you could hardly hear a thing no matter where you sat - although in retrospect you might say that was a good thing.
Twickenham, late 70s - I was a night guard, and it was obvious me and the other guys weren't wanted. Took ages to get bedded down for a 2.00 am shift. Next day could hardly stay awake. In retrospect, you might also say that was a good thing as well.
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What group within the Witnesses has the highest drop out rate?
by Ultimate Axiom inif you could categorise jehovahs witnesses into their various groups, i.e.
publisher, auxiliary pioneer, regular pioneer, special pioneer, missionary, co, do, bethel worker, born-ins, etc etc, (and you can subdivide into as many groups as you wish) what group do you think has the highest drop out rate?
i remember an ex ny bethellite saying that bethel cured him of the watchtower, and after reading the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/160509/1/warren-schroeder-from-bethel-on-freddy-kline-and-the-apostate-books my guess is that it would be ny bethellites, but i am interested to know if there is a consensus on this, or on any other group, or no group at all..
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Ultimate Axiom
Thanks guys. I guess a born/raised in, educated, thinking Bethellite with a high sex drive and a four year stint wouldn't stand a chance. Conversely I suppose, a poorly educated dimwit who's never been within a hundred miles of a bethel, with little sex drive and was converted as an adult stands no chance of getting out.
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What group within the Witnesses has the highest drop out rate?
by Ultimate Axiom inif you could categorise jehovahs witnesses into their various groups, i.e.
publisher, auxiliary pioneer, regular pioneer, special pioneer, missionary, co, do, bethel worker, born-ins, etc etc, (and you can subdivide into as many groups as you wish) what group do you think has the highest drop out rate?
i remember an ex ny bethellite saying that bethel cured him of the watchtower, and after reading the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/160509/1/warren-schroeder-from-bethel-on-freddy-kline-and-the-apostate-books my guess is that it would be ny bethellites, but i am interested to know if there is a consensus on this, or on any other group, or no group at all..
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Ultimate Axiom
If you could categorise Jehovah’s Witnesses into their various groups, i.e. Publisher, Auxiliary Pioneer, Regular Pioneer, Special Pioneer, Missionary, CO, DO, Bethel Worker, Born-ins, etc etc, (and you can subdivide into as many groups as you wish) what group do you think has the highest drop out rate? I remember an ex NY Bethellite saying that Bethel cured him of the Watchtower, and after reading the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/160509/1/Warren-Schroeder-from-Bethel-on-Freddy-Kline-and-the-apostate-books my guess is that it would be NY Bethellites, but I am interested to know if there is a consensus on this, or on any other group, or no group at all.